Kopia for Windows 7 (recommendations)

With KopiaUI v0.13.x dropping support for Windows 7/8 I’m wondering what is the recommended solution for those of us who must continue to support these OS versions. In my case we are talking about a production lab environment with test frame software not yet verified on Windows 10.

Can we continue to use past versions of KopiaUI alongside more recent versions of the server binary, if so do we expect for this setup to be supported in the long-term?

Worst case I could probably fall back to using the CLI and a scheduled task, but this is not terribly elegant, and it complicates ease of use for lab users who need to self-restore files.

I can’t speak for Kopia, but the deprecation is likely due to the libraries around kopia dropping support, e.g., Electron. Even Go is planning to drop support soon, so eventually, Kopia will have to follow suit.

You may want to keep in mind that mismatched server/client versions MAY break things, especially if there are API changes. If you plan to use a server running Kopia in server mode, I would advise against version mismatches.

It appears to me that you have two options:

  • Stick with 0.12x for the time being if you REALLY want the UI. As long as the basic backup and restore functionality is working, you are likely fine (make sure to test that you REALLY can restore from your backups). This is the best you can do with the setup you have.
  • Switch to CLI until Go/Kopia fully drops support for Windows 7. It’s not GREAT, but you could probably setup powershell scripts to help with automation to a certain extent. Go 1.21 is likely going to drop at the end of the year, and if Kopia updates to that version, you will have to stick with the last version to officially support versions below Windows 10.

Thanks for this, the driving forces behind the loss of support are understood (though disappointing).

The two options presented are pretty much as identified in my opening post, as mentioned we do have some situations whereby end-users will restore files, you’ll appreciate that doing so from the CLI represents a technical challenge which is likely to be beyond the abilities of some.

I guess this may be where our Kopia journey ends, for now at least, perhaps sticking with v0.12.x is the only real solution, until such a time as our test frames can be upgraded/replaced.

Realistically, one should strongly consider using something more modern, or just enclose the whole network and never upgrade anything (in which case the last usable kopia version would stay as it is). You can’t really upgrade half of it and leave the rest as it looked in 2009 and think that everything should just adapt to that.

Win 7 was EOL in 2015, extended support ended 2020. It’s not like it can be any kind of surprise to users and owners that it will be getting harder and harder for each day past those two dates that one goes on without planning for the future.

This is basically like a car model where the manufacturer stops building spare parts. You can still get some parts here and there from shops that kept a stock, but you know this too will run out at some date. For win7, this date has come and passed.

So - I am not judging anyone that stays on Win7, but if you choose to do so, you will need to stop hoping that all new software you are using with it will adapt to it becoming older and older. There is a cost in time and effort to maintain compatibility with obsolete OSes and platforms, and given how few people develop for kopia, it is probably not time best spent to make old OSes work as before. Sooner or later, things like the aforementioned Electron or golang will just move on, and it would be unfair to keep everyone else back, just so that someone can have a 14 years old box running the newest kopia.

Not that games are a perfect analogy to backup software, but the same effect is seen there, dependencies and security forces other “platforms” to end support for Win7,8,8.1 even if the program itself might not need changes to keep running on older OSes.

You can use KopiaCLI and access the UI from a web browser on the same or remote computer. It looks the same as KopiaUI.

Realistically, one should strongly consider using something more modern, or just enclose the whole network and never upgrade anything (in which case the last usable kopia version would stay as it is).

This precludes the possibility that STRONG consideration has already been given, and that we have not already isolated the entire environment. In fact both are true in this instance. Traffic in and out of the lab network is limited, naturally direct web access is blocked.

Win 7 was EOL in 2015, extended support ended 2020.

This is incorrect, extended support actually ended January 10th 2023.

It’s not like it can be any kind of surprise to users and owners that it will be getting harder and harder for each day past those two dates that one goes on without planning for the future.

Who said this was a surprise? We are simply asking the question regarding future options.

This is basically like a car model where the manufacturer stops building spare parts. You can still get some parts here and there from shops that kept a stock, but you know this too will run out at some date. For win7, this date has come and passed.

Good analogy, but an ignorant viewpoint.

In our use case these Win7 computers control test frames which are no longer in development, as is unfortunately the case vendors sell out or cease existing for a variety of reasons. These frames remain serviceable, and are maintained via third party, however development for the hardware controllers ended several years ago, drivers are not available (or more accurately certifiable) for later versions of Windows.

Replacements for these frames would run into £100k’s.

For this reason we have gone down the road of isolation - Yes these frames will be replaced in future years, but planning for this kind of spend takes time in our industry, chiefly because the accountants want you to write things off over 3-5 years, but realistically you need 10+ years to realise the return.

This isn’t a failure in the business model you understand, but simply the nature of the business we are in, hence you end up staggering hardware upgrades.

So - I am not judging anyone that stays on Win7, but if you choose to do so, you will need to stop hoping that all new software you are using with it will adapt to it becoming older and older.

You sure? I mean, you do sound kind of Judgy!

…and again, there are no hopes or expectations, just an honest query over whether of not we can continue with a few more updates. Sure, it is disappointing that we cannot advance with Kopia beyond the previous version, but that disappointment is only there because the solution has proven so reliable to date.

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You can use KopiaCLI and access the UI from a web browser on the same or remote computer.

This is an excellent suggestion, and actually what I am doing on my home network, for headless Linux servers.

We use the Kopia binary with a suitable service wrapper and run in the way you propose! Nice.

In similar situation I simply created network shares on old machine and ran backup (it was not kopia but it does not matter) and few other things from another up to date computer on the same network.

You’re right this is a viable alternative, I had half considered this as an option, though not my preferred approach.

To be honest I am trying to limit the amount of SMB activity on the network, since this tends to be one way in which nasties propagate from workstation to workstation. We do have something of a sneakernet situation going on, particularly when third party maintainers bring external USB devices and perform calibration/support activities (mitigations are in place)

Yes it requires a bit of planning - I guess it depends on various rules and requirements of your specific situation. We actually kept production system off the internet in some way - “backup running” machine had two network interfaces one to access internal machines control computers and one to access internet to push backups out - with routing rules preventing cross communication (so only backup program could access network share and communicate with Internet) - not super duper secure but enough for us.

Agreed. We implement the most secure model available, and include additional mitigations wherever possible, oftentimes there is no perfect solution.

Unfortunately, yes… The problem isn’t with kopia but the GoLang (the language kopia build with) chooses to drop support for unsupported operation systems. I know places where system stuck on FreeBSD 7 that control half millions dollars industrial machines and there no one who might be able to upgrade hardware as well software on those and the only choice is to stick with last supported version of software. The same situation, fully air gaped environment, so no choices even for sshfs or anything else to share

So - I am not judging anyone that stays on Win7, but if you choose to do so, you will need to stop hoping that all new software you are using with it will adapt to it becoming older and older.

You sure? I mean, you do sound kind of Judgy!

What I meant what that I will not judge people that deliberately stay on old outdated system for that choice in itself. What I do “judge” is if you place (what sounds like) demands on developer to accommodate to 15 year old systems to adapt or inform whenever something is risking the functionality on above-mentioned systems. There is a difference. I do not mind if some odd hw setup can’t run on a modern system anymore, but I see lots of people on the wireguard VPN support places asking the same about why Ubuntu12, Vista or Win7 or some other old setup can’t use the newest and shiniest versions. The motivations there might be higher in terms of “newer = safer”, but if you hold back your environment, you will have to be prepared to also stick to vpns or backup programs from same era.

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None of what has been said sounds like that, you are inferring a subtext which simply does not exist.